By Plugging the Leaky Bucket: A Real Talk on Customer Loyalty with Italo Leiva
In the whirlwind of running a digital agency or a SaaS company, it's easy to get fixated on the next big thing: the next client, the next product launch, the next marketing campaign. But what if the biggest driver of sustainable growth is already on your books?
We're talking about your existing customers and the value they represent over their entire journey with you - their Customer Lifetime Value (CLV / LTV). It's a metric that can mean the difference between a business that's constantly scrambling and one that's built to last.
To get a no-nonsense take on this, we sat down with Italo Leiva, the founder and CEO of Peddling. Italo's agency, Peddling, is deep in the trenches, using Revenue Operations (RevOps) to build powerhouse growth engines for companies. He’s seen what works, what doesn’t, and why so many businesses get this wrong. We chatted with him to get his real-world advice on fostering loyalty that pays off in the long run.
So, Really - What is Customer Lifetime Value and Why Should I Care?
J.B.: Italo, thanks for carving out the time to chat with us.
Italo Leiva: Hey, happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
J.B.: Let's just dive right in. The term "Customer Lifetime Value" gets thrown around a lot. In your own words, what is it? And why should a busy founder, who’s already juggling a million things, actually lose sleep over this metric?
Italo Leiva: (Laughs) That’s the right question. You know, it sounds so corporate and complex, but at its heart, CLV is simple. It's the total amount of revenue you can realistically expect from a single customer over the entire time they’re with you. Think of it as the total value of that relationship.
The reason to care, and maybe even lose a little sleep, is what I call the "leaky bucket" problem. So many companies pour immense energy and money—your marketing and sales budgets—into filling this bucket with new customers. But they completely ignore the holes in the bottom, where customers are churning out after a few months. It's exhausting and expensive. When you shift your focus to CLV, you’re basically saying, "Hey, let's plug these leaks." You start thinking about long-term relationships, not just one-off transactions. Honestly, a high CLV is one of the healthiest signs in a business. It tells you your customers are happy, your product is sticky, and you're building something with real, lasting value.
How Do I Figure Out My CLV Without a Math Degree?
J.B.: Okay, that 'leaky bucket' analogy really hits home. So, let's say a founder is listening and they're sold. They're ready to make CLV their North Star. How do they even start measuring it? Is there a simple way to get a number on the board without getting lost in spreadsheets?
Italo Leiva: Absolutely. You don't need to be a data scientist to get a good handle on this, especially when you're starting out. There’s a pretty straightforward way to get a baseline.
You just need to multiply three things together:
Interviewer: So, to put it simply: what they spend each time, how often they come back to spend, and for how long they stick around as a customer?
Italo Leiva: Exactly! You've nailed it. Now, for subscription businesses like the SaaS companies we work with, it can be even more direct. You can use a formula like this:
But here's the kicker, and this is where it gets real: you have to look at your CLV next to your Customer Acquisition Cost, or CAC. How much are you paying to get that customer in the door? A healthy ratio is around 3:1. If you’re making $3 for every $1 you spend on acquiring a customer, you're in a good spot. If that ratio is closer to 1:1, you're on a treadmill to nowhere. You’re basically just buying revenue, and that’s not a sustainable model for growth.
Where Do I Even Begin to Improve My Customer Lifetime Value?
J.B.: That 3:1 ratio is a fantastic benchmark. So, for the businesses that aren't there yet, what's the game plan? What are the big, foundational things they need to get right to see that CLV number climb?
Italo Leiva: It really boils down to three core ideas for me. If you get these right, you’re 80% of the way there. It's all about great customer experience, real customer success, and engagement that feels personal.
First, the customer experience. Every single touchpoint matters. From the first ad they see to their onboarding process to that one time they need customer support. We've all been there—you hit a clunky website or a confusing checkout, and you're gone. At Peddling, we're huge on mapping out that entire journey, finding those little points of friction, and smoothing them over. It sounds simple, but it’s amazing how many companies don’t do it.
J.B.: So it's about making things easy and intuitive from day one.
Italo Leiva: Precisely. And that leads right into the second pillar: customer success. It’s not enough to just sell a product. You have to be invested in your customer achieving what they wanted to achieve with it. This is mission-critical for B2B and SaaS. Are they using the key features? Are they getting a return on their investment? You need to be proactive. A good customer success team doesn't just solve problems; they prevent them.
And finally, you have to make it personal. The era of one-size-fits-all email blasts is over. You have the data. Use it! Use their name, sure, but also reference their purchase history, send them recommendations that actually make sense for them. Show them you're paying attention. That's how you turn a customer into a fan.
You Talk a Lot About RevOps. How Does That Fit In?
J.B.: That makes sense. You mentioned your work at Peddling, and you’re a big proponent of Revenue Operations, or RevOps. For those who aren't familiar, how does that operational side of things actually help boost a customer's lifetime value?
Italo Leiva: Ah, RevOps is the engine that powers all of this. It's the 'how.' For decades, you've had marketing, sales, and service teams all living on their own little islands. They have their own goals, their own data, their own tools. It's a recipe for a disjointed and often frustrating customer experience.
RevOps basically tears down those walls. It unites all your customer-facing teams under one roof, with one shared goal: driving revenue and creating a phenomenal customer journey.
J.B.: So it connects the dots.
Italo Leiva: It connects all the dots. With a RevOps mindset, everyone has a single view of the customer. Your support team can see the marketing emails a customer received and the sales promises that were made. The handoffs are seamless. No more asking a customer to repeat their life story every time they talk to someone new. You get clean data, which means you can spot patterns—like what your best customers have in common, or where in the journey people tend to fall off. Then you can actually do something about it. It’s how you build these great experiences at scale, instead of just hero-ball efforts from a few great employees.
Okay, Give Me Some Actionable Tactics I Can Use Tomorrow.
J.B.: I love that. So, let’s get into the nitty-gritty. If a CEO wanted to walk into the office tomorrow and suggest a few new initiatives for retention, what are some of the most effective, battle-tested tactics you’ve seen work?
Italo Leiva: For sure. Let's get practical. One of the easiest wins is a loyalty program. It doesn't have to be complicated. Reward people for sticking with you. It could be points, exclusive discounts, early access to new stuff. People love to feel like insiders.
Another one is proactive communication. Don't just talk to your customers when you want them to buy something or when they have a problem. Send them a newsletter with genuinely helpful tips. Check in to see how they're doing.
And this is a big one: ask for feedback, and then actually do something with it! Nothing builds loyalty faster than a customer making a suggestion and then seeing it implemented a few months later. It shows you're listening and that they have a voice.
Oh, and my personal favorite: surprise and delight. A handwritten thank-you card. An unexpected upgrade. A quick, personalized video message. These little things break through the noise and create a real, human connection that people remember and talk about.
Is Email Marketing Just for Getting New Customers?
J.B.: It's interesting you mention communication. Most people think of email marketing as a tool for getting new leads. How can you pivot that to focus on the customers you already have?
Italo Leiva: That's a huge missed opportunity for so many businesses. Your email list of existing customers is gold. You just have to change the conversation. Instead of "Buy now!," it should be "Here's how you get more value."
Think about a killer onboarding sequence that doesn't just sell, but teaches. Send targeted upsell offers that actually make sense. If you know a customer is using a feature heavily, maybe they're ready for the next tier. Use your data!
And don't be afraid of a re-engagement campaign. If someone has gone quiet, reach out. Remind them of the value, show them what's new. Sometimes all it takes is a gentle nudge. The goal is to use email to be a helpful, valuable presence in their inbox, not just another advertisement.
What's Next? What's the Future of Customer Loyalty?
J.B.: This has been awesome. One last question as we look to the future. Where is all of this heading? What's going to be shaping the world of CLV in the next few years?
Italo Leiva: I think the obsession with CLV is only going to grow. It has to. It's just too expensive to acquire new customers. The future, I believe, will be defined by two things: hyper-personalization and AI.
We're moving past just putting a first name in an email. We're talking about experiences that are dynamically tailored to you, in the moment. AI is going to be the engine for that. It will predict churn before it happens, it will surface the perfect upsell opportunity, it will power chatbots that can solve complex problems instantly.
But—and this is the important part—technology is just the tool. The companies that win in the long run will be the ones that use this tech to make their service more human, not less. The core of it all, the timeless strategy, is building real relationships. Technology can help you do that at scale, but it can't replace the genuine desire to serve your customer and see them succeed. That's the real secret to a lifetime of value.
J.B.: Italo, that's the perfect note to end on. This has been incredibly insightful. Thanks so much for your time and for keeping it real.
Italo Leiva: It was my pleasure. Great conversation.
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